Retirement Jobs and the Adventures of Caregiving with Michele Magner

Summary:
In this episode of the CareLab podcast, hosts Brandy Archie and Emilia Bourland are joined by Michele Magner to discuss retirement jobs and the adventures of caregiving. The conversation delves into personal retirement aspirations, the importance of community, and innovative living arrangements for seniors. Michele shares her passion for composting, co-housing, and her journey as a caregiver and professional in senior living.



Key Takeaways:
Retirement Jobs: Each guest shares their unique vision for a fulfilling retirement job, emphasizing purpose and passion.
Community Living: Michele introduces the concept of co-housing, highlighting its benefits for intergenerational living and mutual support.
Caregiving as an Adventure: Michele's positive outlook on caregiving transforms it from a challenging task to an exciting adventure.
Longevity and Purpose: The discussion underscores the importance of having meaningful activities in retirement to promote longevity and well-being.
Innovative Living Solutions: Exploring diverse and supportive living arrangements for seniors can enhance their quality of life.
 


Transcript:
Brandy Archie: Welcome to Care Lab.

Emilia Bourland: Hello, welcome.

Brandy Archie: I'm so excited that we are here today. Care Lab is one of my very favorite days. And then if you're watching us on YouTube, then you will see that our guest is already here. We're super excited to have Michelle Magner on today. So thanks for joining us.

Michele Magner Thanks so much for having me, ladies.

Brandy Archie: Yeah, so we like to start our podcast with something ridiculous because we're usually talking about something not very ridiculous and serious. So I got a question for you both.

Emilia Bourland: Okay.

Brandy Archie: Okay, now I'm gonna preface it with.

People live longer when they have purpose, right? And so right now, a lot of our purposes are kids and family and work. And so what I wanna know is, what is your retirement job? This job does not have to make money, but what is the thing that you're gonna do when you no longer have to like hustle it for all of your money? Does it make sense?

Emilia Bourland: Mm.

Emilia Bourland: Yes.

Brandy Archie: Okay.

Michele Magner Yes.

Emilia Bourland: Bye.

Brandy Archie: Michelle, let's start with the, go ahead.

Michele Magner Well, something is dropping in. I don't know if this is going to be really a thing, but I am really fascinated with green waste, like being able to recycle organic materials. I chop so much food up in my kitchen and throw it all in the trash. And there are organizations that will collect that. There are cities that are really ahead of the game and the city actually takes care of it. But...

Brandy Archie: Yes.

Michele Magner I love the idea of running a garden or something where people can bring their food waste and then I'm like helping compost recycle it. I'm also interested in co-housing. And I think in retirement, if I actually do retire, which I cannot imagine doing, I could picture partnering with this dude in California who is working on co-housing.

Brandy Archie: Meaning...

Michele Magner communities.

Brandy Archie: What is co-housing?

Emilia Bourland: Yeah.

Michele Magner Yeah, it is. I mean, honestly, what the first thing that comes to mind are like communes or cults, right? That like immediately is what. But it's essentially.

Emilia Bourland: That's what I'm thinking. That's what I'm thinking. I'm like, is this a nice word for a cult?

Michele Magner You have your own living space. It's like a thousand square foot house. But then there are these community spaces with community kitchens and rec areas and walking trails and they're compact. So it's like five acres of land. You can have a co-housing space and it's literally community. So people leaning on each other, helping each other. And he has built these all over the world.

Brandy Archie: Mmm.

Michele Magner See, we're getting really off track very quickly here, but I'm just fascinated with it.

Emilia Bourland: That's how we roll on CareLab. Let's do it.

Brandy Archie: That's how we roll. Let's go. Keep going down that path because I have questions. Good.

Emilia Bourland: Yep, yeah, me too. I like it.

Michele Magner Yeah, I'm a big proponent of staying home as long as possible. And I'm a big proponent of figuring out what is that next living arrangement that's going to work best for you and for your family. I am a huge fan of senior living. And I'm just really curious about this as another option for people to weave through community in their aging senior years. And how can I be part of that?

Brandy Archie: Yeah.

Brandy Archie: There's lots of really cool examples of this too. Like my brother used to have a tiny house and they lived in a tiny house community. And because your house is only so big, then there's lots of shared spaces in the place that you park the tiny house. And so you're creating community that way. Intergenerational living is another good example of that. And if you have, you can do both of your retirement jobs at one time, because if you live in a co-housing place, you can certainly have a compost bin and a compost pile there for everybody. Boom.

Michele Magner Check all the boxes. Amelia, what about you?

Emilia Bourland: Dang, you nailed it.

Brandy Archie: Boom.

Emilia Bourland: You nailed it. My answer is so boring, honestly. I kind of never picture myself not doing work as an occupational therapist. I just really love what I do. And one of the things that I've always wanted to do, and I hope to do this before I retire, but I would love to go on a Woof It mission. Woof It is World Federation of Occupational Therapists.

where you can go to another country where people don't necessarily have access to occupational therapists and just spend a good amount of time there and basically work and serve in that community and help provide services and problem solve and make cool stuff. And so I think that that would be a really cool thing to do. But my answer is so boring. I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing.

Brandy Archie: Until I'm 85.

Emilia Bourland: Yeah.

Brandy Archie: I wouldn't have created 105. I mean, cause I'm saying 85. Cause I feel like by the time you get to 85, you're going to be like, yes, I'm an awesome OT, but I'm going to sit down for a little bit. I just feel like you're not saying that now, but you're going to say that then. I'm just saying, I've talked to a lot of 85 year olds.

Michele Magner 105.

Michele Magner Yeah.

Emilia Bourland: That's true.

That's true. Well, here's the other thing. Here's the other thing. There are so many different ways that I can be an OT. I can just shift gears at one point, too. I've never done pediatrics. Maybe I decide to do that. I mean, it's not impossible. So yeah, no. But I realize, I recognize that as a super boring answer. I'm not thinking about communes or, you know.

Brandy Archie: That's true.

Brandy Archie: That's true.

Michele Magner Hahaha!

Brandy Archie: Minotaur cults.

Emilia Bourland: anything like that, which I think is super cool. I want to circle back to that a little bit. What a great idea to actually help people, especially if you have lots of different age groups living in the same place. And like really, because everyone can play a role and support each other there. And like, I think, I mean, you just hit such a like a hot button thing for so many people, which is that I think we don't feel like we have community.

Michele Magner Bye.

Brandy Archie: That's a great idea.

Michele Magner Yes, that's the goal.

Brandy Archie: Mm-hmm. That's the key.

Brandy Archie: Mm-hmm.

Emilia Bourland: It's really hard to feel like you have community. And so it's something everyone is searching for. So I mean, when you open your first one, just let me know. I'm there. I'm there for it. I'm there for it.

Michele Magner Okay. I love it. He said in his community, he has three retired nurses. So whenever someone isn't doing well or feeling well, they have nurses in their community who are able to help them.

Brandy Archie: Thanks.

Emilia Bourland: Great.

Emilia Bourland: That's awesome.

Brandy Archie: That's awesome. That's perfect. So I'm a woman of many interests and my retirement job, I got two retirement jobs. First retirement job and then a second one. The first one is I'm gonna be a professor. I love teaching. So I'd love to teach, I don't know about full-time, full-time, but more than what I do now, which is like a random class here and there. And then secondly, I wanna be a docent at a museum. So.

Michele Magner What about you, Brandy?

Michele Magner Mm.

Emilia Bourland: Mm-hmm.

Emilia Bourland: Ooh, that would be a fun retirement job.

Brandy Archie: I love like, exactly, I could just like learn about a whole bunch of stuff and then regurgitate it to people. I love like going on walking tours and things and just like learning facts and being like, oh, that is so interesting. Let me tell you this random thing about this place. And then I think being a docent is basically that you just like share all the random things you've learned about that place. So.

Michele Magner Yes.

Brandy Archie: That's awesome. I love it.

Emilia Bourland: That's really cool. I love that.

Brandy Archie: It's like sharing all the random facts that you've stored up in your brain over time. That's it.

Emilia Bourland: You know what? You and I are, we are really similar because the other thing that came into my head was museum curator, because I've been such a nerd. I, well, you know, I was a history major in college, but I really like museums too. And so.

Michele Magner Yes.

Brandy Archie: That makes sense. You were.

Emilia Bourland: So now we have another thing in common. See?

Brandy Archie: Yeah.

Michele Magner What would you guys teach? I mean, obviously, Amelia, you would teach, would you be teaching OT?

Emilia Bourland: Well, you know what? I do enjoy teaching OT, but I would also love to do some kind of like, just, I mean, it would be really interesting to do something completely different, I think. I'm trying to think of what that might be, because most of my like, other interests are things that you wouldn't necessarily teach people about.

Brandy Archie: All right.

Emilia Bourland: You know, they're just things that are fun to do. So, um, but I could probably find something else that I could teach as well. But yeah, I, I mean, I love teaching OT. I do. I love teaching occupational therapy. I think, you know, when I was working at UT and teaching at UT, one of my favorite things to do was to make the coursework interesting for people.

Brandy Archie: Yeah.

Emilia Bourland: So maybe I would teach, you know, maybe I would teach occupational therapy, but maybe I would teach something different too. I don't know. I don't know what it would be though.

Brandy Archie: Yeah, it makes sense. Well, I do, like I said, I already teach a little bit here and there. And so, um, I like to teach people how to do home modifications. And so that part is interesting. Like I love seeing people's eyes light up when they figure out that they can take something they already know, like clinical knowledge, and apply it to like the world around them. So that's pretty cool.

Michele Magner Mm-hmm.

Brandy Archie: So I feel like I would probably end up doing a lot of that. And then I'm also one of those people that like, I enjoy networking and like helping other people network and then like connecting people to each other. And so I think that's the part that I would love to do is to be able to like bring people together and then let them like go off and fly and do things that they love to do too. That would be really fun for me.

Emilia Bourland: Yeah.

Emilia Bourland: What kind of museum? What kind of museum do you want to be a docent in?

Brandy Archie: I don't even care.

Emilia Bourland: Anything?

Brandy Archie: No, I just like telling people things and random facts.

Michele Magner Love it.

Brandy Archie: I love like learning a random fact and then being able to share it later on. It can be anything.

Michele Magner I love it.

Brandy Archie: That's fun for me. So that's pretty awesome. But, okay. So we got to get back on track though, because we could talk about random things all day long.

Emilia Bourland: Yeah, that's so true. Yes.

Brandy Archie: I want to hear more about you though, Michelle. So tell us about you. How did you end up being where you are?

Michele Magner You know, it's so interesting because when I was a kid, I actually was in nursing homes a lot because we had family members who were older and needed support. And I remember walking around, I'd push wheelchairs around and, you know, hang out with the older people and kind of grew up in that. And then I went to college, graduated, got a real job, and I found myself coming back to this space. I was in technology for a number of years, and when we relocated, I just kind of went back to where I had come from in a sense, and started working at a senior living community, and I was just in operations, loved it. I'm a natural connector, as I said, and it just made sense. And so it's kind of like I started in that, and then that's where I ended up. It feels like full circle.

Brandy Archie: Yeah.

Brandy Archie: Wow, that's pretty awesome. So you do so many things though. So tell us all the things that you do in your job, like what, in the full realm of everything you do.

Michele Magner I guess it's really, it's not that much. When you look at it from the inside, it feels like a lot, but from the outside, it looks like it's really not. So one is I'm very committed to the senior living industry. I think it is a fascinating place to be. So I am the Director of Corporate Outreach for Heritage Communities, and then I also do some work with Deloitte, and that's part-time. So I have a coaching business and I work with people who are transitioning to a different place in life. So sometimes that is job, sometimes it is helping support loved ones, aging parents. And so that kind of feels like it takes up the majority of my time. And then I have my own podcast as well.

Emilia Bourland: Mm-hmm.

Brandy Archie: Very nice.

Brandy Archie: What do you talk about on your podcast?

Michele Magner So the podcast is about the caregivers. I love talking about the caregivers, and I feel like they are the unsung heroes in our society. And I like to have real conversations with people about what it's like to be a caregiver and what that journey has been for them. And there's a lot of grief and loss, as you all know, that comes along with that. And it's just something that I'm really passionate about talking to people about.

Brandy Archie: Yeah.

Brandy Archie: Yeah, so a lot of the people who listen to our podcast are caregivers, right? So let's talk about that. How do you, what are some of the things that you would say are top tips for caregivers to be able to take care of themselves?

Michele Magner My top tip for caregivers is to focus on yourself. I say this on the podcast a lot and it's not selfish. It is a really healthy thing to do. And if you are not in a good place, then it is going to be very difficult for you to help support somebody else and be present and not feel resentful. And I don't know, what do you think?

Emilia Bourland: I completely agree with that. I think the thing I tell people most often, because I meet with a lot of caregivers, either in the clinic or in their homes, and a lot of times I feel like the message that caregivers are getting from people is, you know, you need to take care of yourself. And I think it's very abstract. And people hear that and they're like, yeah, but what does that really mean? And I think the thing that I encourage people to do is really take a look at their time and think about how are they spending their time? And...

Emilia Bourland: um and are they giving themselves permission to do things for themselves and take time out of their week to do things for themselves? And are they actually physically scheduling those things into their week so that it becomes more concrete, so that it doesn't just feel like, okay, well, yeah, self-care is a thing that other people do. It's a thing that I do too, and here's what I'm going to do. And here's when I'm going to do it. And here's why it's important, and here's how I'm going to do it.

Brandy Archie: Yeah.

Brandy Archie: I think caregivers feel a lot of guilt. Do you feel like that guilt plays a big part in that?

Michele Magner Yeah.

Michele Magner I really think it does. And I, and I do think that when we talk about self-care, it's, it's so vague. And so I like to have people get really specific with what that looks like for them and to give themselves permission. And, you know, this is where, Brandy, I mean, I think you come into this really well in supporting people with that, just to identify specific things that are going to help them fill up their own tank. And I love the idea of scheduling it. If you can look ahead a week or two, but I'm, I'm also talking about a lot of those.

Michele Magner that are in the moment, because if you have kids or you're caregiving and you've got a lot of balls in the air and you're spinning a lot of plates, it can be difficult to schedule things in. So finding those small pockets of time to do little things that bring you joy in that moment can be a game changer, but I do, you got to take care of yourself.

Emilia Bourland: And, and that can be a lot of different things. It's not necessarily that people need to go and, you know, get a massage or do something really extravagant. It can be something as simple as taking a walk outside, listening to music, doing something that is a hobby for them, engaging in something creative. And I think that, you know, that's where a lot of the guilt can come from. People don't think, oh, I have time to go get a massage or, oh, I have time to go do something extravagant. You don't have to do something extravagant. You can do something that is in your everyday.

Brandy Archie: Yeah.

Brandy Archie: It doesn't have to cost a lot of money either.

Emilia Bourland: Yeah.

Emilia Bourland: Mm-hmm.

Michele Magner Exactly. Mm-hmm.

Brandy Archie: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense.

Brandy Archie: That's true.

Emilia Bourland: Exactly.

Brandy Archie: So, okay, let's take a look at things you want to be in the moment and be thinking about what it is that you're doing, right? But also caregivers, they have a lot of grief. So like what you do with your podcast and you're talking about grief. How do you, um, how do you talk to caregivers about that? Like, what are some of the ways that you talk to them about that?

Michele Magner It's such an interesting thing. And I feel like grief can come in a lot of different forms and stages. And so sometimes it is just the fact that life didn't turn out the way they thought it was going to be. And now they are doing this thing that they didn't anticipate. And that comes with some level of grief. Sometimes it is actual, like tangible, I've lost someone and I'm working through that. And so.

Michele Magner It can come in a lot of different forms, and I think that's why I love the podcast so much, is because people get to hear that there are different ways of working through this. And the one thing that comes up a lot is that there's no right way to do it. And what works for one person doesn't work for the other. So a lot of times, I just love being a sounding board for people and just saying, "Hey, I see you. I hear you. This is valid. You are a person with your own feelings."

Brandy Archie: Right.

Michele Magner And you are worthy of taking care of yourself, of feeling your feelings, of acknowledging that it's hard. And so we talk about that a lot. I think just getting people to see that there is value in their journey, even if it is really different from what they thought it was going to look like, it is very, very valuable.

Emilia Bourland: Yeah.

Emilia Bourland: Well, I love what you said about, you know, just seeing people and saying, I see you, I hear you, because I feel like a lot of times what I end up doing is helping people to understand that they are not alone in this process and that there are people around them that have experienced similar things and getting them to connect to those other people. That's where the magic happens for people because they feel like, oh, I'm not alone in this process.

Emilia Bourland: And so it's like seeing them and then like connecting them to those other people.

Brandy Archie: Yeah.

Michele Magner Yeah, I mean, you're in their homes. So you see firsthand how they're living and how they're doing and helping them feel seen and validated. It's really important. It's really important.

Brandy Archie: Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. So I'm gonna give you a couple of rapid fire questions, just for fun.

Emilia Bourland: I love these.

Brandy Archie: Me too. Okay. So the first one is.

Would you rather be able to fly or be invisible?

Michele Magner Oh, fly. Oh my gosh. Yes. Fly, fly, fly.

Brandy Archie: I love it. What's your favorite way to spend a Saturday?

Michele Magner Ooh, um, making a really great breakfast, having a long walk or a long bike ride, just being with my family and friends.

Brandy Archie: Awesome.

Brandy Archie: Okay.

Brandy Archie: How about, do you prefer coffee or tea?

Michele Magner Tea.

Brandy Archie: That's awesome. Amelia, do you have any rapid fire questions you want to ask?

Emilia Bourland: Oh, um, if you could live anywhere in the world, where would you live?

Michele Magner You know, I really think I'd like to live in Italy. I don't know why, I just, I've been to Italy a couple times and I love it. I think the people are amazing. The food's amazing. I would just love to live there.

Brandy Archie: I think that is a fabulous idea. I think that sounds amazing. Okay. Thank you so much for joining us today, Michelle. This has been really fun. And I think that all of our listeners have learned a lot and are going to take some of these things and be able to use them in their own lives. Amelia, any last words?

Emilia Bourland: Um, yeah, I think the thing that I want to just underscore is that we appreciate you and what you're doing and that the people who are listening to this and caregivers that are out there, they are important and their stories matter. And just to remind them of that. And I love what you're doing with your podcast, Michelle. It's fantastic.

Brandy Archie: Yes, I agree. And thanks for coming. All right. Thanks everyone for joining us for Care Lab and have a great day.

 

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